career dont have modeling succeed superstar

Neutrality

Someone continually edits this description to be distinctly anti-Richard Bandler. I think the description should be balanced. Certainly many trainers have their detractors, but there is more to NLP than Bandler's trial in the mid-70's, and his legal actions are only one small part of his involvement in NLP. The language continually is changed to be distinctly anti-Bandler, and this is a non-biased source, so let's keep to fairness between the NLP factions.

* * * *

The entry as it currently stands (16/08/05) is balanced and undistracted by superfluous\biographical details.

There's no mention of Bandler's trial, former cocaine habit, his current obesity and his current denigration of NLP so the entry isn't biased against Bandler. In any event, such biographical detail should be confined to the 'Richard Bandler' entry.

A section should be added on the intellectual antecedents of NLP.

URLs for the abstracts of various research papers pertaining to NLP topics should be included. This is preferable to simply stating "research has shown..." or "research has failed to show...". The 'NLP Research Database' (http://www.nlp.de/cgi-bin/research/nlp-rdb.cgi) has many such abstracts though I'm not sure of its completeness.

I replaced the POV flag on the article as reading the history there have been a series of reversions (I count 13 in 3 days)in the last few days. These are a clear indication of (at least) two points of view about the page and its contents. My opinion fwiw is that the page should first and foremost present an overview of NLP as it is today including references to its history and the divergent streams and secondarily - but importantly should cover the criticisms and associations that many people feel about it. --GreyHead 08:12, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Organization of the article

On a side, can someone have a go at cleaning up the various "principles" section? The subsections probably overlap and could do with some review and neatening up. FT2 11:13, Jul 27, 2004 (UTC)

Asking Why (vs. How or What) in NLP

Incidentally I've removed the sentence Asking "why?" when gathering information is an advanced technique, reserved for special situations.

It's not a 'principle' of NLP, nor strictly an accurate statement. The reason NLP discourages "why?" is pragmatic: it will get beliefs about the problem, rather than operational information about the problem. "Why" can often be a red herring because it gets information which is not as relevant to actually understanding or changing a problem, so much as justifications why the problem needs to be there.

Often the more useful questions are "how?" and "what?" - how is it a problem, how do you experience it, what would you prefer to have happen? which in general help move towards resolving a problem. FT2 07:17, Aug 10, 2004 (UTC)

I removed the dmoz link for the reasons listed at Wikipedia talk:External links/temp#Against. A search lists only about 1000 of the 430,000+ en.wikipedia articles having dmoz links to its 590,000+ categories, demonstrating that common practice does not currently support it. Zigger 14:30, 2004 Dec 26 (UTC)

I don't see a logic in "common practice does not currently support it". It not yet used widely. Conan 17:58, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The logic is simple: we all must begin at once. :)

External Link Spamming

There are some spammy external links about penis enlargement and the such (Note 1, Note 2, etc). Going to remove then (as i don't think NLP has something to do with these kind of things.

I noticed today quite a bit of external link spamming to NLP-related pages, all linking to nlpschedule.com. I tagged the links-only pages with speedy deletions, but do not have the subject matter knowledge to judge the usefulness of links on other pages. Would someone be willing to look through them and remove the ones that aren't useful or are otherwise inappropriate to Wikipedia? You can find the list of affected articles on Talk:NLP map. Also, they are on the talk pages for the posting anons: User talk:63.199.31.178 and User talk:69.109.178.79. Thanks! --JimCollaborator 21:52, Mar 28, 2005 (UTC)

I have to say I was extremely disappointed with this article. It is certainly substandard. That first sentence is terrible. It needs a big overhaul; I learnt more from a ten-line article in my dictionary of psychology than from this twaddle. ZephyrAnycon 23:34, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Reversions to this page

Apparently this page is being constantly bombarded by an NLP fanatic (username ChrisG?) who regards any revisions to his pro-NLP text as "vandalism". A reasonable compromise would for Chris to provide a SHORT version of his current text (which is already enormously over wikipedia's suggested length limit) while someone else provides another view - JC

Chris - the article limit may have first arisen because of browser limits: that does not mean that it is its only purpose. As for my supposedly not being able to delete the article and replace it within the proper length limits, which does not contain a single claim that isn't verifiable - balderdash. Of course I can. There's nothing to say that a huge mass of excuses and evasions can't be replaced with a short clear statement of fact. I repeat my proposal: you or someone else "pro" NLP should produce an article of a length that is within the usual wiki limits, which should be balanced by an opposing view

Brevity is the soul of wit, chaps! This article could really do with a bit more cutting. And there's presently more spam and hype than you would find on ten average NLP sites.

Yes, I see that it is completely overboard at the moment. The introduction seems to be ok at the moment, except that the epistemology should really be part of the methods section. As NLP does entail quite some controversial claims, it does seem appropriate to state the bounds of NLP as has been attempted already. Added to the list could also be claims to heal cancer, improve crystal healing, predict winning lottery numbers, increase the power of charms, in addition to the speed seduction claims already there. This could be done in note form in order to make unspamlike and informative. A clear summing up/future of nlp section would help begin the info reduction effort also. Regards D.Right 12:06, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Criticism (New Age, Cults, Scientology etc.)

The Criticism section does not cover the criticisms made about NLP by the scientific community, instead what it is really covering is the criticisms leveled at one-another between different factions within the NLP community.

Specifically how about covering some of the following:

- Many of NLPs core methods have little scientific basis, and in some cases have been shown to be completely ineffective. For example Anchoring, Modelling behavior using "submodalities", and use of hypnosis. When the article states: "Find the client's internal representations and/or processes which drive the problem behavior. If you change the representations and/or the way they are processed, you will often change the behavior", what proof of this is there?

- There is no scientific proof that subtle internal emotional states are linked to some externally observable bodily cues -- whether it be breathing, posture, eye position or what ever.

- "Submodalities" and the whole notation that people are primarily "visual, kinesthetic, auditory, etc" is dubious. What proof exists that people's thought processes are linked to these bodily senses, as is claimed by NLP.

- There are no serious studies showing that anyone that has undergone NLP treatment has been helped with their depression, phobia, etc. If you claim there has been then please reference them!!

- The claim that NLP can't be submitted to rigorous scientific investigation is bunk; it's an excuse at best. If NLP produces results, then surely these results can be measured. It can be as simple as comparing 100 NLP treated patients against 100 non-NLP treated patients.

The section titled "NLP is not a science" is about as biased a section I have read in Wikipedia. Statements such as, "In sum, NLP promotes methods which are verifiable and have so far been found to be largely false, inaccurate or ineffective," demonstrate extreme POV and it needs to be cleaned up.--Agiantman 11:26, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

No problem Randal. Here is one for teasing starters: http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/06/30/landmark-forum-scientology/ And there is a seminal and review based academic source entitled: Mind Myths: Exploring Popular Assumptions About the Mind and Brain (Paperback) by Sergio Della Sala (Editor). I can paste a whole thesis about the inextricable historical, cultural, theoretical, and philosophical links between NLP, Scientology and new age notions on this discussion page if you like. Regards D.Right 15:57, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

But your source doesn't state any facts about NLP being directly influenced by Scientology or EST. That's not a source. Admittedly, I'm an insider here. I've worked with people directly trained by Grinder and Bandler, and studied the published work of early NLP. I also did a lot of Werner Erhard's programs during the mid-80's. I can say directly as an insider that there's no direct connection, other than the fact that a lot of people stud

career dont have modeling succeed superstar

What's New

Info Menu